Last time I checked you weren’t a full time MC.

I knew I was going on a tour. It was either going to be the Def Jux tour which was like a month or this one. At first this one wasn’t a reality because it was too long and I had to go to work. But I knew that I was going to go on tour this year so for me to go I would have to be financially stable and if I get to that point where this tour is something I can make money [from] at least I can feel good about leaving my job. Prior to this year it really wasn’t an option with my family. I was a computer programmer so I was doing fine, but things started to clear up. I saved for five or six months and all my goals for savings I had gone past that so I was like cool I can stay out a little longer, so let me see what’s going on. I got an offer to do the Def Jux tour first and I had four weeks of vacation so I was going to do that and go back to work. One thing happens to this and next thing you know Blueprint is not on the Def Jux tour. I was really disappointed because I wanted me an RJ to go out, but at the same time I wanted to do the Atmosphere tour. I felt in terms of the acts and what I’m doing it would fit well with the tour. Plus it was longer and I’ve played more with Atmosphere than I have with Def Jux, so I was more familiar with these cats with the exception of RJ and Aesop. When I got scratched off the Def Jux tour it was like this is your option and I could have still done only a month and went back to work, but it was now or never.

What’s something on this tour that you saw that you didn’t expect?

One thing I saw was that a lot of people knew me by name and were more familiar with my stuff than I thought. When we started going west coast I didn’t think that anybody would know who I was, but I got out there and kids were coming up to me like I’m so glad you came out, we never thought we’d get to see you live since you don’t do a lot of shows, especially on the west coast. What’s blowing me away is actually being out and people being into it. Every time you go out, every time you sign something, every hand you shake reinforces the reasons why you chose to do it. The thing with me was I didn’t do it for the money, I was making more money doing what I was doing. I’m doing it to get my name out there, to get the experience, to meet the fans and create more awareness about me so I’ll be in a position to live off of this and this time next year I can go out and have a huge demand and play.

So what have you learned so far being on the tour?

I’ve learned that privacy is very underrated. Even an hour or two should be cherished. Sound is kinda shitty most places you go, so don’t sweat that and being prepared is huge. Play as much as you can because then you will be prepared for all the scenarios you’re going to see. There is always something different every night so once you get out there and start playing, you start learning things. Now I’m learning things just by being on this tour and not being the focal point. I have a nice set of time, but its not my tour so I’m learning and observing and picking up things that I want to do when I go out from merchandise, to the presentation of the set, the flow of the set, to just being able to do seven days and have a voice.

Let’s talk about beats. I heard you got started in ‘97. Now that isn’t really long as far as production goes, so when did you get to the point where you felt confident enough to put your beats out there to be compared with everyone else?

I don’t know if I even felt that way until after I put out the first two records. When we put out the Greenhouse album and the Illogic record I still didn’t really feel that way cuz it was shit that I had done. We were in a crew and we were just recording and I guess I always had this feeling like don’t ever do a show if you don’t have anything to sell. That was the only reason I put out the first two records, so I wouldn’t have to do a show without some tapes or something to sell. So I did those and the feedback I got from those were cool. I was never really looking at it on a national level, even up until recently. I always looked at is as if I can be as least as dope as the kids who inspired me locally and have the respect that they had when I was coming up in the scene then that was cool in terms of beats. A lot of kids in Columbus are just like me they do beats and rhymes. Cats like Copywrite was doing beats and rhyming, Camu, Intellect, Brothers Grimm same thing. When I was coming into the scene they were coming up so I was like if I can hold down both aspects as well as them I’m content. But then people started hearing about our records I guess through the internet and doing shows. People started picking up and I started getting more feedback. Now I kinda feel like I have some things that can maybe compete with a lot of music be it commercial or the dopest underground shit. I don’t want to have one style or dominate one market. I’d rather have a mainstream cat say I’m gonna take that one beat from Blueprint that shit is hot, opposed to them listening to the tape and being like man everything on here sounds like some dirty underground shit. So that’s what I’m going for.

As a producer what else separates you from the pack as far as your specific sound?

I would say style or just variation. A lot of kids they just have dope loops. Some of them will just get a record and loop it up kick snare and that’s it. I can do that style. A lot of kids have a slow 75-85 bpm thing they do and I’m like that’s cool I can do that too. A lot of kids can’t do a beat that a girl will actually like, I can do that. With the Illogic shit that’s been my main thing. When I do those records it’s to prove how versatile I can be and constantly change it up from Unforeseen to Got Lyrics?. The presentation of the beats, the speed of the beats, we changed it up completely and that’s what I want to do. Kids are chopping up all their sounds now, I can do that too. From the slowest to the fastest to the brightest to the darkest sound what I think will set me apart is that I won’t have a signature sound. That’s kinda my goal because I think once you get into that you kinda become predictable unless your one of the elite guys like the Bombsquad who had the signature sound that was so dope it doesn’t matter. The Primos or the Pete Rock’s, those cats can do it. I don’t think that would benefit me a lot at this point to have a very signature sound outside of an album basis. Per album I’ll have an album sound and that’s because it’s conscious effort, but the beats on the one album won’t sound like another. That’s my goal.

I interviewed RJD2 a few months back and he said when he first started doing beats that he totally disregarded the fundamentals and tried to break all the rules, but then he realized that he needed to know the rules before you start breaking them. Did you go into it with the idea in mind that you wanted to be so different or did you learn the basics?

I learned the basics first because there was no one around. I was in Springfield Ohio which was like a population of 40,000 and the school I went to only had 2,000 students, so no one else was doing beats, no one rhymed. I had my crew and that’s when it started, but we were all from Columbus and went there and started growing. But I just started out basic. I said I’m just going to sit here with this sampler for a month, I’m not going let anybody hear anything I’m just going to learn the basics. I’m gonna read this manual front to back. I’m really a guy who will sit there and not make a beat until I finish the manual or if I get a new piece of equipment I’m gonna know it. Even if I don’t use everything in there at least I’m familiar with the terminology and the potential of the workstation. A lot of kids try to be different, but I didn’t want to try to be different I wanted to be effective. The beats that inspired me the most are the ones that are very simple, but really moving. Some kids will say I’ve got this 8 bell arrangement, its really complex, got these crazy sounds coming in from the left and to the right and it sounds like chaos and to them that’s dope. But it has no melody and that’s the problem I see with a lot of kids doing beats. The fundamentals of doing beats are melody and arrangement. You can have a 1 bar, 2 bar or 4 bar arrangement and that’s why kids don’t understand the appeal of a Pete Rock or Primo is they master melody to the point where its not just a guy doing a beat, its somebody who knows how to get your ear the same way a Beatles song will. It’s got a groove, it’s almost like a chorus and your groove is what hooks people in and if you don’t have that or if its whack and you don’t have an ear for the fundamentals then you shouldn’t take it any further in doing beats unless you just want to be an instrumental artist. To this day I still do that. I’ll have times where I’ll want to throw a bunch of shit in there, but I try to judge it per beat and sometimes the beat doesn’t need anything. Sometimes you can have one or two instruments in there and it works. I don’t like to cloud it up with a bunch of shit sometimes.

Would you feel comfortable doing a solo album with just your beats and you rhyming over them?

Yea, at first I wouldn’t. See I was never going to do a solo record until I met RJ. In 2000 I bumped into RJ, we had did a show together and he was like I’m really feeling you let’s try to do some shit together like a song or two. Then we did a song or two and that’s when I started doing solo stuff again, but I still couldn’t write to my beats at that point because I was just so used to doing my beats and letting everyone else rhyme to them and I was in a crew so I never had to write anymore than one verse. Even then I still didn’t write to my beat, I’d write to someone else’s beat then rhyme over my beat. It was weird I never did it. To this day its still kinda weird writing to my beats, but now I can do it more because I’ve done the Soul Position record and after the Soul Position record comes out I’m either going to do an EP or full length of songs that I produced and rhymed on.

Why did you choose to only rhyme on the Soul Position record rather than co-produce?

I’ve been in crews my entire career prior to Soul Position, so I was used to writing a rhyme, doing the beat, recording and engineering the entire session, sequencing the song, mixing it down, taking it to get mastered, coordinating the artwork, booking the shows and for the first time I didn’t have to do anything but write my rhymes, rap and go home. I did it for the first few songs with RJ and I was like this is the greatest shit on earth how come I never tried this before I should have done this years ago. That’s when I realized why I’ve never done a solo record because when I do shit with Weightless I handle my entire spectrum and it’s a lot of work where as with me an RJ it’s so much easier. Granted I’m a producer so I have a hell of a lot more say in the way songs are laid out, sequenced and the arrangement of songs than probably any other rapper that works with RJ. We both know this shit and we’ll sit down and build ideas and work through things together. But it’s so much easier to write when I don’t have to worry about other things. I think I’m going to start doing it a lot more now to stay inspired.

Do you feel you will ever have to leave to blow or do you want to stay and say I’m representing this area and make it blow up?

At certain points I think everybody goes through that especially in the Midwest where you’re like New York is the mecca or the LA underground scene is the shit because both of them had points where they were doing incredible things from like the whole Project Blowed movement out west to the Fondle Em era with the Juggaknots on forward and you’re like man I need to be there. But I was so inspired locally in Ohio and Columbus specifically that I don’t feel that way anymore. I feel like I can go to any of these other places and be another rapper, but I’d rather be the king of a small mountain than just another climber on a bigger one. Then seeing what kids like Atmosphere have done or other groups who have done it locally so strong it just bubbled over everywhere else. That inspired me to say I don’t need to leave. I think if anything my scene would be hurt if I left. Like if I decided to leave there would be something there that won’t happen, whether it would be kids saying if Print can do it then I can. There are kids who know of me and RJ and are like hey these guys are doing it and I’m from Ohio too and I am inspired by them and I want to pick his brain and see what he’s doing. I think the mistake kids make is they say Print you’re doing something different because your getting known everywhere so what’s your thing. I’m like I’m not doing anything different from what you’re doing, I’m just active. I’m just trying to do a lot of the same things your doing. I’m trying to meet people, being sociable, taking advantage of any opportunities. Things I’ve done that I didn’t think would be as large as they were have turned out to be real fruitful. At the time we formed Soul Position RJ didn’t have a record out and I wasn’t known as a solo artist. RJ wasn’t even signed to Def Jux at the time, he had just did the Mhz second single on Fondle Em when me an him got up. I wasn’t on Rhymesayers, we were both kinda just coming up and you look at that and he’s taking huge steps. He put out a record with Def Jux and he’s got his own thing going. At the time me and Aesop Rock did the song Alchemy we were both still coming up. He had just put a record out on Def Jux and I had known him since ‘99 and we were like yea let’s do something together and his record ends up selling a shitload of copies and now everywhere I go everybody knows “Alchemy” and that contributes to people knowing me. At the time I did that freestyle session you mentioned it was like hey I’m here to record and everyone was like you want to go to the radio station. Cool. We go up there and end up doing arguably one of the most sought after freestyle sessions right now. I don’t know too many other freestyle sessions that kids just have everywhere and are using it as a standard for freestyles because everyone there was on that day and killing it. So I’m just trying to be active and it’s turned out to be fruitful and I think a lot of kids if they keep that same ethic they will eventually break through and get somewhere.

Being that you’re a dope freestyler where do you place that skills importance when looking at the overall ability of an emcee?

First and foremost you have to have the fundamentals nice voice, delivery, cadence things that make an emcee exciting to listen to on tape because the bottom line is that people are buying the records. That’s what they are going to walk away from the show with. You can do the illest freestyle that would blow somebody’s mind and no one’s taping it. The people at the show will leave saying he can freestyle, but there is still people who will walk away with your record and if your record isn’t up to that level they are going to be disappointed. So I look at it as freestyling is icing on the cake, but if you’re good at it, it adds an additional dimension that you can use in your stage show or to create anticipation about you. Some people are hearing me just from that Orphanage freestyle session like who is this guy, so it’s good there, but I don’t think it’s absolutely necessary. But if you’re gonna freestyle be good at it or don’t do it at all because some people do it and they suck and their stature just starts dwindling. Like [people will say] I liked him until he started freestyling. I really like doing college radio shows too. Every radio show I’ve done I get excited about those because I know its going to be recorded, so it adds a different dimension for me as opposed to doing a show and freestyling isn’t the same. I think a lot of people will probably hear a lot of the freestyles from me on the radio before they do at a show. On radio it’s almost like recording to me. I take it that seriously, whereas sometimes your like I just want to freestyle 8 bars and be done. I don’t want to ramble on all night, there are four other guys on stage I’m just going to pass this mic off and that’s how I feel a lot of times at shows.

On the Weightless website you have a million records set to drop from a lot of mini crews and variations between your main artists on the label. What kind of difference can fans expect to see between something like Greenhouse Effect, The Minor League, and say the Iskabibbles?

I’d compare The Iskabibbles to any Wu Tang record where you got like 5-7 guys who are going to interact and do stuff together on a song by song basis. It’s got some concepts, but its not a concept heavy album. It’s more a album to do so we could have things to perform as a crew together. That was the whole goal. If we’re ever all in the same city and we all want to go rock together we got a slew of songs we can do to get everyone involved. The Greenhouse record concept wise is very heavy. We did like one or two songs where we talk shit, but the rest of it is concept heavy. The Soul Position album is real concept heavy so that and the Greenhouse stuff are kinda parallel. The Minor League is more of something we did just to talk shit and scream on the mic in a real aggressive, funny way. There are some concepts that are on that record, but the way we are approaching the mic is real aggressive and angry. Sometimes me and my crew will do records where the object isn’t necessarily to come with the craziest metaphor or punchline, it’s a style. We are into like delivery, cadences, voice, inflection so sometimes we do songs that aren’t about anything, but they are fun as hell to perform and it builds your skills and your ability as an emcee. So the Minor League is along that line. It started out with me and Manifest and we added this kid named Flip. We got pretty much an album done, but I’m just not home to finish it. I do so many records that when they start coming out its going to be like a floodgate. The Greenhouse record has been done since 2000. I did an instrumental record and I got one song left that I want to do with Mr. Dibbs and that’s been done since Summer 2001. The Iskabibbles is 90% done. I finished it a couple times and then I got picky as a producer and I changed a few things. It’s been done for a year and a half now.

Are you worried that some of these are going to sound dated when they drop?

Yea, but then I’m starting to see that with most artists anything that comes out is dated. The Soul Position full length was finished November 2001 and now it’s going to be 2003 when it comes out. We turned it in December 2001 and we’re chillin. The EP we did probably two months before it came out with some stuff that didn’t make the album. It was more like an exercise because I did 3 of the 4 songs on the EP in like two days. RJ sent me the beats and I’m like cool I’ll use these three, wrote the songs that weekend, recorded them the next week, mixed it the week after that, it got mastered and came out. But the album is a lot more thought out and it flows front to back, so I feel a lot better about that. But at the same time the EP is being well received so I know people are really going to dig the album. I’m just trying to stay active and be like 2 Pac or something and have a 100 records. I’m afraid that if I chill out I’ll lose something. While I’m in this mode where I feel good about what I’m doing on the mic I’m just going to keep recording and building my skills. Sometimes me and my crew we’ll get together and do four songs in a day and as long as I keep coming up with beats we’ll keep doing songs. We camp out whole weekends doing as much as we can all the time and that’s why we have so much stuff built up, but the only the only thing that’s been hurting us is our distribution. So a lot of records we’re like let’s not put that out until the Soul Position shit comes out. When the Soul Position comes out anything that Blueprint is on will get picked up, where as now some of these distributors are acting funny towards us.

So any distributor that carried Soul Position will carry Weightless Records now.

Right, so we’re like we could rush that shit but let’s hold our cards tight. It’s hard for a lot of people. Its hard for people in my crew to understand sometimes, but the ones who get it are like yea this is going to work. Plus I’m out here now putting in work so that Weightless as a whole this time next year will be taking up to the next step. I want to eventually get to where Def Jux, Rhymesayers, Stonesthrow are at. But I can’t do that if I just rush my shit out. I can’t do it if I don’t take my time and work the distribution and get it to radio and retail like I should.

What’s up with the Celestial Clockwork album (Illogic’s new solo LP with Blueprint on the beats)?

I gotta finish it when I get back. We recorded 90% of it, but the way we do albums we record it to a basic beat and then we go back and rearrange the beats to fit the songs and change the sequencing and things so it flows a little better. He and I have to go back and do that last step and then we’re going to do maybe two more songs. I’m gonna finish that and then someone else may put it out we’re not sure yet.

What else do you have coming out?

We’re doing a compilation called The Weightroom where I’m doing all the beats with everyone on Weightless. There are a lot more people on Weightless that have even been on some of our records that I want to help come up. That’s going to be next. If we’re going to wait to put out the full length projects then we might as well put something to set up those projects also and see if we can get new distributors that way. When I get back I’ll be doing it full time whereas before I was working like 60 hours a week. I’d get in 8pm every night sit on my couch for an hour or two, then I try to do a beat or write a rhyme or mix down a song or contact a artist to do some artwork because I was doing everything the website, press, etc., but now I got some people to help me. Manifest from Greenhouse Effect stepped up big on the business side so he’s helping out a great deal and I got another guy named Juan who helps for our show booking and that took a lot of pressure off of me and with me not working we are going to be a lot more visible in the next year or two. Now I just bump into people who are like I know you’re dope but I can’t find your record.

Pick up the new compilation CD, The Weightroom, at your local underground spot and be on the lookout for the Soul Position EP which is in stores now and the full length set to drop later this year.

After entertaining crowds all across the U.S I got a chance to chat with Slug about God Loves Ugly, touring, and the future of the Orphanage project.

With Crescent Moon now working full time with Oddjobs why did you choose to add Blueprint to the bill instead of another local Minnesota MC?

Crescent was an accident. We did a tour and Eyedea and Abilities and they were doing a set and they brought Crescent on as Eyedea’s hype man. I didn’t have anyone with me. Me and Brad were just doing it ourselves, but Crescent would get drunk enough that by the middle of my set he would end up on stage doing my backups just for fun. So when we got ready to do the next one he asked if he could come. Then we did it again and he said he wanted to go again, but this time he said I can’t go because we’re (Oddjobs) doing our own tour. We are releasing the Soul Position record, we just put an EP out a couple months ago and the full length is coming out soon. So I needed Soul Position to tour to just get people aware of the record coming out, but RJD2 is on tour with the Def Jux guys. So either Soul Position needed to go out with them (Def Jux) or Blueprint needed to come out with us. With them dudes they already had so many people on tour they really couldn’t squeeze another person in so Blueprint came with me. That way we could work some Soul Position material into the set and just kinda get him in front of people as a preempt for the album they have coming out.

So far what have been the ups and downs of the tour because I know you guys are touching a lot of spots you haven’t been before?

Most of the shows have been really good. So far we’re six weeks in and there’s maybe three cities where all of us felt like fuck this city and it never had anything to do with the kids, it had more to do with the police there, the venue, or the people that run the venue, shit like that. So we’ll probably still end up going back to those cities, but we’ll just try to do it different the next time.

This is the first time you’ve done a show in Baltimore, what do you expect from tonight’s show or tonight’s crowd based on what you know of the area?

I don’t know, but I’ll tell you right now I was expecting a bigger turnout in Baltimore than what we were going to have in DC last night. When we pulled into DC yesterday based on what people have told me and Aesop has told me about Baltimore being kinda tight. Everybody else I talked to said DC is not that tight. You go into DC and it depends on how moody people are as to how many people are going to show up so I was just hoping for 100 kids last night and it ended up being like 700 kids. So that fucked me up, I was like woah especially having never played there before, so I know that my luck can’t be that good two nights in a row so if I can get 150-200 kids tonight even 100 I’ll be happy. But the vibe is generally the same all the time not to say everybody is the same, but most of the shows we play people come just to have fun. None of us are the lyricist of the year so we don’t get a lot of mean mugging from other emcees and we have a good name for having fun shows. The only thing that can wreck it is if a knucklehead or two get into a fight over a girl, but other than that it’s pretty good anywhere whether we have a 100 kids there or 1500 it’s always been these kids came with their $12 to have some fun.

This particular venue has started to bring more underground heads and even some well known names like Black Sheep are coming back to tour and there are actually pretty good crowds out here who come to see those groups.

You’re about to see a lot of that. What I’m noticing now especially when I’m talking to booking agencies, like my agency will call me up and say do you know who Das Efx is? And I’ll be like yea and they’re like oh they are trying to do tours now, Black Sheep are getting back on the road, Big Daddy Kane’s about to start up. What I’m seeing is that cat’s used to do it like this. Like in 91-92 hiphop went the way of the tour bus tour and a lot of that let’s just get in the fucking van and get on the road shit died. And over the last couple years with Jurassic Five doing so well, with Dilated doing so well, with tours like the Def Jux tour or with the fact that we go out two times a year for three months at a time I’m starting to see fools ain’t blind to what the fuck we’re doing. They’re saying who the fuck is Atmosphere and why are they making a little bit of money touring. Black Sheep is going back on the road, Das Efx is about to hit the road again and I think that’s fresh because its kind of like you don’t have to do it the Cash Money Jay-z way, even though that’s probably the most plush convenient way to ever do it. But it’s good to see that a cat like Dres at 33 years old is about to hop back into a van and go back out there and get his thousand bucks a night. To me in a weird way I feel like me and some of my friends played a small role in reminding some of those older guys that just cuz you can’t sell more than 40,000 records anymore don’t mean you can’t have a good time and be successful. I expect a hug from Big Daddy Kane, when I finally meet him that fool owes me a hug cuz I kept his shit alive for him while he was gone and now come back and get it homie.

When did it get to the point where you built up the credibility to start touring outside of the Midwest?

It took the vinyl. When we put out all the different tapes that’s what got us in the Midwest market and we represent that shit. We pump Midwest so fucking hard that I could go to Chicago and they wouldn’t hate on me just cuz I wasn’t from Chicago, so it was all love. That’s where we first started making a little money so that we can actually start pressing vinyl, pressing the overcast CD, and once we pressed the Overcast vinyl that’s what got us into college markets from the east to the west coast. We just didn’t know what we were doing so it took a minute for us to learn it. Every move we made was a dummy move. We would get into a van and drive all the way from Minneapolis to Dallas for one show that paid us 250 bucks and it just cost me damn near two g’s to put all six of you in this rental, but we gotta do it because its our only opportunity to go all the way to Dallas. We did the same shit with New York, so it took a minute to get a reputation of giving a decent show and getting our own self esteem rolling as far as we know how to do this now what’s the next move. There were a series of mistakes we were able to learn from and eventually learn how to master the touring procedure. Now I almost scare myself when it’s too much. I can’t wait to go home right now. It’s been six weeks I miss my kid, my cats, next time I’m putting in a two week break in the middle. Ten weeks straight is crazy like I swear when I get home my kid is gonna have a mustache.

Haha

Everybody is ready to knuckle up and beat each other up in the van.

I would think that would be the toughest part, being cooped up with the same people all day.

It’s real. Next time I’m giving everybody a two week break in the middle to go home and we will meet back here in the middle and then we’ll go back and finish up the rest of the country. Ten weeks straight that’s a long time to be in a van. I never want to do the tour bus thing because it’s too expensive, it’s a waste of money. Plus you got to sleep on the tour bus, the way we do it right now we get rooms or we stay with friends so everybody after the drive everyone gets to run off to their own compartments where as on a bus you’re stuck with each other.

I read in a lot of interviews about how you changed the purpose of your music where Overcast was more braggadocio and now with projects like Lucy Ford and God Loves Ugly everything is more conceptual.

Everybody asks about that, here’s the thing before Overcast I had already put out six tapes. I did a bunch of Headshots tapes and I went through those phases. By the time me and Spawn made Overcast both of us consciously knew that we were climbing out of the bragging, boasting, I’m the greatest emcee in the world type shit. We still had songs like that on there, but even inside of those songs I think both of us were consciously offering the new direction we both were about to start. Even from the first song, the song “1597,” to us our stupid ass had this vision that that song was [about] how these types of rhymes are medieval now, they are from 1597 and now we’re in 1997 so this song shows where our history was and the rest of the album was supposed to start slowly taking you to the next. One of the things I’ve consciously done is make my albums fit together granted nobody else gets it, but I get it. When I hear it I know at the end of Overcast “Primer,” the camaro and the mobile home song, is the set up for the Lucy Ford album. I know at the end of Lucy Ford “Homecoming,” with EL-P, was the set up for coming back home for God Loves Ugly. So people always ask me or they complain online how Slug doesn’t do these types of rhymes or he’s just fucking out there or whatever. I’m just kinda like what did you expect, did you like Overcast, did you really listen because the whole record I was telling you that I am not going to be rapping like this anymore. This is my ode to this kinda shit and I’m getting out of it. The only problem is that a lot of people discovered me through that record. Like, if they would have discovered me prior to that record it probably would have made more sense.

I see a lot of people talking about that on the internet like you said and from just talking to different heads between Overcast and Lucy Ford a lot of the fans you gained felt alienated or lost because the two albums were so different. Some people couldn’t get with Lucy Ford did that ever concern you?

Nah see that’s fine with me. I guess as much as I want to give the people what they want the only person I have to impress is myself. If everybody shits or me or turns their back on me that’s really not my problem. It might affect this or that in my life, but I’ll be alright. “If you don’t like me and your yellin boo / there’s nothing wrong with me there’s something wrong with you.” I know what I put into my music and I know that God Loves Ugly is fifteen times tighter than Overcast. The only difference is maybe cats can’t relate to what I’m talking about, but just me as a writer and Ant as a producer I know progression is there and that’s all I’m concerned with. I want to make sure we are continuing to progress whether or not the community identifies or feels it. As long as me as him know that’s the shit right there then that’s as far as it really goes.

How many more albums do you think you have in you?

With Ant I got 7 or 8 more records before he finally realizes I’m a piece of shit because he is kind of a slow learner. Once he realizes that I’m a chump he will start working with better emcees and then I’ll just learn how to play a piano and get a little boom mic and turn into the Tom Waits of rap or something and I’ll sit up there and rap my shit. I don’t know how many records I have left, like God Loves Ugly might have been my last record for all I know. I don’t really think about it. I got another record done. Seven’s Travels is finished and I’m just holding it and I’m probably gonna put it out in the Spring, but who knows what happens after that. I might just flip and go head first into the label and start working other artists’ tours or driving the van. I’m not too worried about it, I’m gonna play an influence on this shit for the rest of my life. There’s no getting me out at this point. It’s just whether or not I’m an emcee or I’m doing management or sitting on the phone trying to sell stores the new Brother Ali record. Somehow I’m gonna play a role in making sure good music is out there whether it’s my music or somebody else’s.

As a fulltime emcee how do you still keep it interesting and fun when this is the way you pay your bills and you might have to consider making compromising in order to pay the rent?

It’s a part time job. That’s how I still keep it fun. My real job is being Sean sitting at the Fifth Element making sure anything I can do to make shit run smoother. What that means is I sit in a chair next to a phone and wait for Saadiq to tell me what to do or I sit in the chair out by the register and tell my brother yo we got this coming in I need you to be in or whatever. To me that’s really my job, that’s the job I can get mad at. This is after work I’m going to catch a little buzz and go down to my part time job at wherever and I’m not going to get fired because nobody takes it seriously enough. There going to let me have a couple beers on the job, they don’t care as long I keep up my end. So it’s a little easier to deal with in comparison to the job I get more angry at. But it’s still a love hate relationship, as much fun as it can be in the course of a 24 hour day especially on tour, it’s like an acid trip, you can go through anything. You have the moments where the sun is too bright and you can’t stand it, you have the moments where it calms down and cools out, you kinda go through everything. You hate it as much as you love it.

You ever sit back and reflect on being able to travel the entire country getting to places you never thought about ever going based on emceeing?

Yeah, I’ve thought about it. Honestly, I had never left Minnesota, rap is the only thing that got out of the city. I never left my state for anything until I started going to do shows so I have to be very aware of that. It’s responsible for all the traveling I’ve done period. I don’t really think about the accomplishments, well I try not to. The only times I do is if I’m getting really arrogant and someone is in my face hollering and I gotta shut them down somehow. Sometimes the best way to do it is to pull a power card on them, [like] go away your records are CD-R, eat shit. But I don’t even do that often, usually when I do it’s with a friend. I’m not that good at yelling at strangers.

What, if any, is the connection between God Loves Ugly and Sevens Travels?

They are not related. Sevens Travels is not going to be considered an Atmosphere record, it’s a Headshots tape it’s a lot more fun, its more like my De La Soul record. I’m not really approaching any serious issues and try to be on some like yo kids learn. It’s more like did you like Industrial Warfare then you’ll love this.

I know you have a lot of material that you haven’t released, do you always bring those recordings to sell on tour?

Sometimes. It depends, some tours I’ve done where I didn’t have a new record. So what I would do when I knew the tour was coming I would go over to Ant’s and make a four track and that’s when the Sad Clown Bad Dub records starting coming out. I got a new Sad Clown and it’s a DVD and I’ll probably have a new one on the next tour. I probably got like 400 four track songs that will never come out. What I used to do with em is I would give them to Advizer from the Oddjobs and in return he would give me dubs of all the shit he collected and that’s how I found out about people like Aesop Rock and Siah and Yeshua. So he would collect all that stuff from other people and I would share my unreleased four track shit to get that and he would take my four track shit and spread it out over the internet and this was way before I knew I could use the internet. He pretty much was my biggest distributor. He doesn’t know it so don’t tell him, but the shit he did when he was throwing out my four track shit is insane because even now I got kids that will come up to me and be like yo are you gonna do “Rats” tonight? I’m like “Rats” where did you hear that and there like I got it 3 years ago on an mp3. I’m like that’s fresh, but that song never came out and I don’t think I even have a copy of that song.

On God Loves Ugly you take a more aggressive stance towards Lucy. What changed in your life that caused that different focus?

She moved in with me. She lives with me now. Before I was pissed off because I was stuck with some other girl that I hated and Lucy was on some dumb shit. She would booty call me from time to time, but she wasn’t trying to get down. So I made a record about how much she frustrated me basically. Then she moved in with me and then I realized how much I fucking hate her. So, I was hoping that wouldput an end to the whole Lucy saga, but I can’t really do that because aside from Seven’s Travels the stuff I have been writing for the next Atmosphere record I have to keep it in the context of the previous ones because I want everything connected so that you can trace Overcast all the way down the line. So she’s making it in still as a character in the new raps just not as my girl, but she’s still a character and I am working out the Rico thing. Aesop did a song about Lucy on Labor Days as a way of telling me to quit rapping about Lucy and he brought up Lucy’s boyfriend Rico. So now I have to get Aesop back by doing a song about this kid named Rico.

Speaking of Aesop, you’re in the supergroup, The Orphanage with him, Blueprint, Eyedea and Illogic, but I hear that the material you guys recorded may not come out as an album.

That’s my vote, but there are four other visionaries that are involved. My thing is this hiphop does not need anymore underground supergroups. That shit happened in ‘97-‘99, its over with. The Weathermen should be the last one to ever happen. So I would prefer that we take the Orphanage material and put one on the b-sides on one of my twelve inches, have Illogic throw one on his record if he wants to and spread it out like that so that people see it more as five friends that make music together as opposed to we came together to save hiphop. Not only that the record is very hard to sit and listen to the whole thing because you have five people that are very strong personalities. Sometimes that can be a bad thing to have all five on record because my interpretation might be different from his and his, but all of us are coming so strong at what we’re talking about its confusing. I would prefer to separate the songs from each other so it’s not looked at as a full project just scattered songs.

Check rhymesayers.com for upcoming tours and the new Sevens Travels.

As former East/West Records artists and a significant part of the Fondle Em roster in the late nineties, the Juggaknots built upon a solid following that has really helped pave the way for not only themselves, but for others also. From their vinyl only Clear Blue Skies to the Rawkus/Ozone single “Fire in Which You Burn” with the moniker Indelible MC’s (which comprises of El-P, Big Juss, Mr. Len, J-Treds and the Juggaknots) and a song on the first Lyricist Lounge offering under the same supergroup guise, plus the beautifully crafted concept album/movie produced by Prince Paul “Prince Among Thieves”, the Juggaknots really put in work. However, like many other artists that were considered “hip hop heroes” during the wave of underground independent, free-musical expression mania, the Juggaknots did not fully capitalize on their situation the way they felt they should have. Although thoughts of eating off of making the music they love should be in full effect, that isn’t the situation. Yet, they have overpaid their dues and now is the time for them to reap real benefits for themselves, their families and loved ones.

When did you guys start out?

Buddy Slim: We’ve been doing it for a long time, but professionally since 1995.

And who are your influences?

Buddy Slim: Hip Hop or regular music?

Regular music and hip hop.

Buddy Slim: You know, Just Ice, BDP…..growing up in the Bronx and everything. Also, I liked artists like Jimi Hendrix and cats that did their thing.

(After answering the above questions, we talked for a few and then the interview was passed on to Breezly Brewin)

Enters Breez…….

How was it for Breez as far as Prince Paul’s project?

That was hot! It was kind of bugged because Prince Paul would have me say the same thing 30 times and he would make me repeat and repeat things. He would chop up my vocals and flip it. He already had an idea of how the story would go. Other than that, he basically did everything and working with him was cool.

Tell me about how you feel about hip hop today?

It’s cool. I ain’t really thinking about other artists. Some things bother me and others; I don’t really pay attention to. I really spend time digging some things and others I don’t worry about it. The only thing that worries me is the lack of concepts. A lot of cats want to battle, but they don’t do concepts and can’t come up on concepts. A lot of cats can win 40 battles and no concepts. Kane would battle, but then have a song like “Word to the Mutha”. I just want to see more balance. I ain’t mad at these cats getting their paper. I will listen to any whole album once. I listen to Jay’Z whole album and I hear his radio shit…..then I buy the album, and I see not only his songs like “03 Bonnie and Clyde”, but I pay attention to his lyrics and observe songs like “Meet the Parents”. You know, can’t hate on cats with out giving them a thorough look up and down. But, Uhm Hip Hop is cool.

You got kids?

Yeah

How many you got?

Two, Slim got three.

I got a girl myself.

Yeah man, you’re gonna have a lot of sleepless nights.

Ha, Ha, Ha!

Hopefully, our music will give a little balance and give a better look at things for females in their perspective. I got my sister in the group and everything. I think about my mother and my daughter. Cat’s say they think about the women in their life, but how often is your sister in the group?

How was life with my mans Bobbito?

Bobbito is the coolest cat on the planet. He’s a real NY cat through and through. But the real thing about him is that he traveled the world. Every time we would come home we would tell me that he went to this spot and it was ill. Hip hop is universal and you wouldn’t know that unless you travel the universe. He would be up on shit before other cats. I wish he was still on the radio. I hope something sparks him to get back into this shit. I’m here now and I want to carry on for cats like Bob. It’s frustrating, but I know there is real hip hop out here.

Tell me which cats you think are wack?

That’s a tough one. Be honest, no one jumps out to me. All I play is stuff I am digging. If I’m not digging a joint, I don’t pay it no mind. It’s like if a cat asks you about a movie that you ain’t checking for. It don’t even play in your psyche. I can tell you how Nelly ain’t an ill lyricist, but he serves a purpose. I don’t see Nelly as noting but another MC Hammer. For me to say he’s wack? I wanna say it, but it’s not my steez. Stuff that I ain’t acquired is tasteless to me. There is an acquired taste and stuff that ain’t tasting….see me in the club after a couple of drinks and girls take their clothes off and he’s my hero! (Laughter in unison!)

If you asked me who was better: Lakim Shabazz or Greg Nice. Cat’s gonna look at you crazy. But in the party, you will definitely want Greg Nice. The problem today is that shit is so segmented that cats ain’t even allowing themselves to be together. At times I analyze lyrics, but at other times I wanna hear Nelly.

Back to Slim! Aiight Slim, what’s in the plans?

We’re just dropping an EP in the next few months, hopefully before the summer. We’re doing the final mixes for it. We got a Breez Solo album, I’m doing a compilation and Heroine got a poetry book…new things, something original…not a clothing line.

Not a clothing line?

Nothing wrong with it, but there is other mediums.

How did the first project sell (your own opinion)?

Numbers? Uhm….Well, that’s the reason why we are releasing the first album, and doing things in a more business way instead of mercenary for hire. At first, our mission was making the hottest music and getting the dopest albums to sample. A lot of artists suffer from just putting too much passion into the music and not in the business. They get so focused with that goal and don’t look at all the tangibles involved and the business side of where we at. We sold pretty well, but to be absolutely clear, bottom line? I don’t know. We made a little bit of money, got a little exposure. I would like to get a number, but it all fluctuates. We just gonna leave it at that. We just gotta be more assertive of handling our own destiny and things like that. Trying to do things in an orderly fashion. Trying to get the ball rolling, na’mean. We hope to have good things with the releases. I think it is better for us. If I’m shooting basketball, I will notice my form getting better. At the end of the day, we’re just trying to see our numbers and our natural progression.

Log date: February 4th, 2003
Time: 8:15 p.m. Central Standard Time
Interviewee: Heroine, the femme fatale of The Juggaknots

Buddy Slim hipped me to the fact that it would be best for me to call her the next day since she had to go to work in the morning. That was cool with me because I definitely did not want to wake a sleepy woman (it can get dangerous, people!). So, the following day, I gave her a ring, and like a true professional, she was awaiting my call. As soon as I told her my name, she said “That sounds like a pimp name”. A quickly told her that it was in reference to Batman, and she was cool with it. Good thing this was an over the phone interview and not in person. She would have seen me blushing. On with the show!

How’s the weather in Indiana?

Cold. Very cold. Breez is in school?

Yeah, he does everything, hard working cat.

Tell me about Heroine

What do you wanna know? (LOL)….I rhyme and I guess that is Heroine. Heroine is the MC part. One extension….one part

That’s cool. Tell me about your poetry?

Well, I’m trying to get some stuff together. I would love to get it out there sometime in the near future, but I can’t really set a date. I’ve been writing poetry since the time I’ve been rhyming. I mean, rhyming and poetry is all words, but still it’s all about performing. You know how shit gets labeled. I pretty much been writing, let’s put it that way….for, I don’t know, ten, eleven, twelve years. Really, twelve, I’m not good at math. Gotta do the equation and work it out. Actually, 12.

Tell me something that you yourself bring to this hip hop game, if it is a game.

Lots of people say life is a game, so it’s like a collaboration with that…I wouldn’t say that I am really tapped into any real major form of influence like saying that I brought something to hip hop like I want to. I’m not really sure what that level is, but I know that it is a bigger place than what is known. I don’t wanna undermine what I’ve done, I just don’t know how much of an influence I have had in hip hop so far because that hasn’t been a lot of promotional tactics involved. But, you know, for the select few that have been influence and dug it, even if it was just at the end of the show, it definitely done something. Not to undermine anything, because everything matters and it adds up.

How do you feel about your group as far as your “infinite potential”?

If we gonna use the word potential, you might as well use infinite. As far as potential, I think as a group, as that triangle as we are, and it can be an infinitely very much a juggernaut…very much an unstoppable force. Plus the fact that we are all family, no matter if we add or subtract it, it is infinite in being. That is the group we are regardless. As potential goes, it is a very tricky word. You can’t really define it. I definitely think we can do a hell of a lot. The incredible thing I think we can do together, and if we all work to our own individual potential and master our own craft or bust our ass trying to come close to doing so…is pretty much knowing yourself and knowing your strengths and voltroning it and getting it together…and the potential in that is very much infinite. We maximize that, then things can be great, but that is the “if” word. It’s all “if”. It’s a great thing to use as a motivator because it can motivate, but it ain’t shit if you don’t do nothing about it. If people say if you got it, but don’t do shit with it, then that’s crazy. Everything has its season. It may seem like you ain’t dealing with it, but you are. But, yeah, infinite potential is it.

You got longer answers than your brothers. But that’s a good thing.

Sometimes, but not all the time.

How you feel about females in the game?

MMMMMMM, (sigh)

Uh, oh……I think that females in the game is a good thing. You need women. Women are very much apart of what’s up and what is going on. Having them be apart of hip hop is very important if not essential. And more and more are doing it and I think that is fresh.

Why haven’t we heard as much of you as we would like?

That’s a damn good question. Most people haven’t. And there is a damn good explanation. I’m the youngest of everyone involved in thee group and I’ve been writing for quite a while. I think when I started, I was young, and so a lot was going on. I know that having what I experienced so far…it’s a lot of work if you intend on taking it beyond your notebook. It’s a lot of work and it takes a lot of time and polishing. It takes a lot of reinvention and it’s definitely serious. In addition to the workload, it’s the atmosphere and environment. From rhyming to recording to shows to the unpredictability of things until you on a level which I haven’t achieved. Where things are totally secure financially and mentally in a lot of ways. You may think you are ready a lot of times, but the experience when you get out there will sedate you a little bit. It will make you reflect and look for a second. I think it is good because you get a lot of things done creatively. But when you gain the focus of things, it’s like “whoa”. It would have to come with time. Basically, I was young. I had school in the morning and studio sessions all night into the morning. It wasn’t feasible and it wasn’t working.

How was it being in Indelible MC’s?

It was a cool experience doing the joint. We did “Weight” and it was really big for me since they didn’t know me, but became familiar with me with my verse. Very good exposure. And I think it also added to the project, so that was a good experience. And along with that there were a lot of shows. I guess that whole conjunction and dealing with those cats. They some cool people.

Have you had any trouble getting recognized for your skills?

(Laughter) Hell yeah! Yeah, you know but that is nobody’s fault but my own. Me, in the sense that it will take more work and more discipline and more focus and drive. When I do put the effort forth and people are around, from my experience, people tend to dig it. I think that the problem is going back to things being on a better scale and being more productive and therefore being seen with more exposure. At least it starts there. If I put out an album and its in someone else’s hands and I put my trust in there and things don’t jump off then there is some blame to be on me. Until that happens……..

Do you think there are some artists that really need to step their game up?

I would say, perhaps, yeah, but who they are isn’t relevant. If anyone, I’m worried about my squad stepping their game up. I’m worried about hip hop as expression and as an art form and culture. If that is the case, then either step it up or maintain that level of commitment and sustain what they have. And that in itself is a changing process. If my game ain’t up, then I’m not offering too much.

When I say a name, I want to give me the first word that comes to your mind, okay?

Aww geez, let’s hear them.

Bobbito: Cool

Breeze: Fresh

Eminem: Cool

50 Cent: Like

George Dubya Bush: Asshole

Hussein: Crazy

J-Treds: Cool

Hip Hop: Speechless (Laughter)

Ja Rule: Aiight

El-P: Cool

Heroine: Fresh!