A new digital release from Subtitle, Trunk Bomb, is out now. Buy it and help him press a cd/record. Get it here: getcrevget.info
This record took me 4 years to prepare to record. I have lots more songs done but I figured why wait? If you like it, your money goes to what you will read about ad nauseum below…. I would have liked to mix and master the record, but to do it right costs money and I’m not Ras Kass, so Kickstart wasn’t a successful option for me to explore. originally the plan was to raise money to make this record the right way, but now I’m about to sell my computer to pay back rent and I need to find a solution to a future of couch surfing. the moral of the story is that anything of assigned value costs to make and refine to the point where it reaches it’s ideal form. just because you got it for free doesn’t mean that I made it for free, or that I would be able to KEEP making it for free. art kills, but it also costs. (oh yeah, I always give away goodies because sharing is caring and I’m out to share information.)
You want me to buy this digital download, so you can go an make a record out of the download with the money you make from it, and potentially sell it to me again?
For some reason people feel they have a right to claim ownership over something because they can download it for free opposed to having to pay for it. The way things are moving more and more artists will have go this route of the fans “pitching in” to help get albums out. The physical copies will always be bought by the true fans and supporters of the music and artists alike. Thats fine if you don’t quite get what it is that Gino is trying to do but that may be because you are from a different school of thought.
This is a really good album that should see the light the of day.
That’s just my two cents.
I understand pretty easily what Gino is trying to do. It’s not that fucking complicated.
I just don’t see why we should be liable for him choosing to be a musician and having the bottom fall out of it as a source of income. He should have seen that coming 5 years ago.
No one in this thread is claiming ownership of anything unless you are.
This really makes no sense at all. If the ‘true’ fans are going to buy the record anyway, why do they have to bankroll it in the first place?
Nobody is forcing you to buy anything. You can still listen to and rip the entire album for free if you really want.. I don’t get what you are bitching about.
Subtitle explains fully what he is doing here. http://giovannimarks.net/page/3 It is similar to what Public Enemy did
and what Rass Kass is doing http://raskass-central.com/
The idea is that all of us collectively are a label. Subtitle submits the product, we decide if we like the direction the project is taking and then we invest what we think is fair to finish the product. That is is in a nutshell.
I wrote a longer explanation on this, but I have explanations all over the web so I deleted it.
1. if you are a fan that buys digital stuff and knows that this is out, you already bought this yesterday and are bumping it for all of your friends who slept.
2. if you are someone like fat mike who supports the art and it’s artists, you see what I’m getting at and you are doing the same thing as the dude from #1, except for you know what my long term goal is with this release.
fans aren’t liable for anything. if you fancy yourself a supporter of my work and the whole “underground” hip-hop scene, then you understand this and probably support it. if you just want to listen to the music then it is free for you to listen to. on iTunes, you hear 30 seconds of a song and in a store, you may not get to listen to new shit at all. on the street, some dude is trying to make you buy their record because it is “underground” and you HAVE to support it. meanwhile on the net, no one has to buy anything if they can find a site that streams it and every time you hit up a blogger to promote your music, they are hitting you up with THEIR free download instead! that goes above and beyond “conflict of interest” in regards to publicity.
if the music alone isn’t enough for you to have bought it and my reasons for doing it aren’t enough for you to support it, (BTW: anyone who buys trunk bomb digitally, gets the physical one for free if/when it drops. for starters.) then just do your thing and buy what you buy or listen to what you listen to.
p.s. websites like Kick Start specialize in this, the only difference is that you are donating money in good faith without any kind of example of what will come from the money. in this scenario, look at this like a demo and you are the label. what is an independent artist without the fans support in the first place? you guys basically ARE the label and I’m pitching my next record to you. you can either be a fan who heard the record and liked it or a potential investor in what could be a new alternative to making professional quality independent hip-hop records.
and another thing, the record changes with each version. if you came up on the 5 song demo (this is if you bought LA Cita Strobe the first week) then you would know the bandcamp version is different and the full length version will be different from that….
it will have more material, Nasa from uncommon records is mixing it and Willie Green is mastering it. we already have spots mapped out and etc. I also intend on doing the whole videos/promo/PR thing and while I have a solution to that situation, that also costs. these are the things labels normally pay for and these are the reasons why artists never get paid from record sales, except for in merch. the lack of these things has also played a large part in our global music scene getting slept on and eventually bottlenecked with talented people who can’t break through.
I’m feeling this quite a bit.
This only makes sense if you are pressing vinyl. If not…Meh, keep the jewel case and 2″ by 2″ CD art. I’ll burn it myself and pre-loose the album art and thank-yous. Nevertheless, sounds great.
So the basic premise is that we give you money and we should expect nothing from it in return.
It’s basically a kind of social welfare program for artists then.
Yes^^^^^. The alternative is the artist getting a 9 to 5 and saving up the $3000. Hard to do when every 15 mins people are dropping internet albums all around you. Kinda makes you feel left out and desperate.
This is a dope album. Stop bitching about “musician’s career choices”. If you see being a musician as a career choice it’s no wonder you are soulless enough to not pay for quality music. Stop being envious of what you cannot accomplish.
I just spent all day mixing a track and motherfuckers think they can just have it for free. Seriously, grow the fuck up. What’s your damn career choice? Do you do THAT for free? I didn’t think so.
Sorry you didn’t get your precious jewel case or vinyl sleeve. When your eyes burn out from staring at your covers in your crib then maybe you’ll remember that you bought that release for the music that you need your EARS for.
Bottom line, this is dope, if you want to walk with it in your Ipod, buy it. If you just want to stream it, then you’re doing it already. Either way, make your choice and shut the fuck up.
this is good. this justifies all of my rants to the point that I feel satisfied. out of all the people on this thread (7), most understand exactly what I’m out to do (5) and one even provided a solution to the people who DON’T want to pay! 2 didn’t get it and apparently, one of the two knows me on a first name basis. I explained it as eloquently as possible on my blog and to keep saying the same thing is redundant, so thanks to those who are doing me the favor of breaking it down. what makes me happier than any of this is that no one said that the songs were bunk and that was ALL I was trying to do in the first place, get you to listen to and react to the music.
sometimes, all the other shit that surrounds a record distracts you from listening to the record in the first place. that other shit may even fuck up your listening experience. I could have just done like scores of other established artists and dropped my record on bandcamp while letting you do the math (i.e. Del) and just used the proceeds to do exactly what I said I was going to do anyway. this is my way of getting people involved so you know that there is still a indie/DIY culture that you are a member of.
just to do the msg. bored thing and respond to the “haters”, BTW: THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT. you have to have opposition….)
Hidden Identity- I wasn’t going to make a jewelcase with 2X2 art. my last record (nerves of ice) dropped on matte digi-pak format with a 12 page booklet and Young Dangerous Heart came out on a triple panel digi-pak with special pantone ink that we had to get made. Terrain To Roam and Marks In Angles were made the way they were made due to label preferences and budget. I’m from the new old school, so I believe in taking advantage of storage mediums and hiding bonuses on records (like I do for all my records on bandcamp. the only difference is that you can hide all sorts of things in 100 megs of storage space. books, other records….) and in the extra space on a CD. it is not hard to come up with good packaging that would actually mean something to the buyer if you care about that sort of thing as an artist. in regards to vinyl, every official release of mine except for marks in angles has been on vinyl and will continue to be on vinyl if I have the budget to do so. Thanks for the props on the sound, that is the most important thing.
Rickroo- uh, you need to read this thread, my blog and whatever else is available and then re-read Chaps’s post to really grasp the basic premise of what I’m doing. if you still disagree with it, then we agree to disagree and you can steal the record if you like it. again, you listening to the music is all that matters and those who think it should be available in physical formats will do their part in making that happen. I did my part and the work is there for you to enjoy and that is the end result.
Yeah I don’t download music, I’m new to that whole thing. I buy music if there is a hard copy. The only music on my hard drive is mine. I don’t see anything wrong with what this dude is up too,nore did I state that in any of my posts. Beats sound good, I ain’t hatin. I find nothing wrong with welfare either, I was on that shit for years. I was just confused by the idea of buying a record that may come out later. I think I get what it’s about now. This is a new era in music, and things like this are pretty new to a lot of people so expect some positive and negative feedback. Especialy on this board.
Nasa still thinks you can make money by selling music.
The sooner he realizes that’s not the case, the sooner we won’t have to listen to rants about entitlement from a dbag who sounds like a spoiled child.
Thanks Sub I’ll re-read the thread and your blog and try and see if I agree with your thoughts and then come back here and hate on you, then have you amazingly appear a few hours later to respond to it with a friend in tow who will also respond to it. I guess you call that ‘doing your message board thing’.
If you want cash you should start selling autographed copies of that photo of you in your underwear standing in a living room holding a wizard cane or wizard staff.
I’d buy that for a dollar.
BTW I didn’t steal your record and I don’t have an opinion on the content at all.
I was just curious as to why you could not fund your record yourself (a job etc) and instead were asking for donations.
I think your idea is slightly novel but won’t change much of anything in the long run (people not buying music).
incase you didnt know… the dirty sample & planit album is doing the exact same thing except it’s $3 instead of $10.
Hahahaha, son is mad salty over this shit. Hilarious. Keep dickriding homie.
that shit is great. now it’s just humorous. keep up the inquisitional spirit rickroo, we do this for you.
read the thread, was plannin on buyin it, then i listened to it…pass.
Good luck with the sales. If things go bad and you bail on the rent, you can always stay at Nasa’s house.
this is the LAST time I write on this thread. I proved my point and right now I’m feeding into this madness versus working on what I intend to work on.
thanks to whoever the last dude is, I guess we’re homies.
Hugh Morris, sorry you didn’t like the music. Better luck next time….
Rickroo, you either have a crush on me or just don’t like me or you KNOW me and want to turn this into 98-99. The more personal you get, the more personal I get. The dude up above said to put your email down and be on some accountable shit. I don’t give a fuck about your email, if you want to question my ethics in a public forum then do it in a civilized and respectful manner. All you are doing is acting an ass and for all I know, you are sitting directly across from me right now.
If you really have a problem with me, then do what people do and get at me PERSONALLY and let me know where to find you. I’ll go to you town or city unannounced, drop in on you and have a 1:1 discussion about this face to face. If we can’t come to a conclusion like real men, then we will do something else.
(everyone else, I’m glad the thread got you listening and making decisions.)
What the fuck is your problem dude? You seriously sound like a bitch. Did these dudes sell you a blank CD? Do you even live in america to see and know these dudes? At least the people on here are listening to the music and making decisions, you just want to be a bitch. Then when someone else involved in the music comes and checks you, you get all sad and want to cry. these dudes HAVE JOBS, I make MUSIC in the music industry and I know these dudes. everyone is curious to see how sub’s record is doing in this new time so we follow press. apparently, you view people sticking up for their friends against bullshit as a gang attack. What you apparently don’t understand is that it takes a LOT more than 3000 dollars to release a REAL record worldwide and sub was just tying to make that point. Based on his ramblings across the net, I’m pretty sure that he knew that the money to make a record was NOT going to come from Bandcamp and he just wanted to prove that.
If you speak to grown men in public like you do on the net, then you must be a badass that is unfuckwittable. If you are so gangster to personally insult people you don’t know, put YOUR real name and email address on the web like they did and do this like grown ass men. Not like bitches and hoes.
(look at it this way, a bunch of rappers from real rap worlds think you are a bitch. you should be proud, stay on the nuts of people you don’t know…)
Jeez…I didn’t mean to offend. I thought about and I think that your plan is what it is and you’re not holding a gun to anyone’s head, I get it. I guess I was hoping that there would be some extras like a mailed-in postcard with the tracklisting, a voucher for a free t-shirt, and maybe a download card for something else. I don’t know. I like holding things. I’m sort of a physical person. I hope you’re not mad, I respect you and I’ve met you before, you’re a cool dude. We don’t need to beef.
“If you don’t like change, you’re going to like irrelevance even less.”
-General Shinseki, former Chief of Staff, US Armed Forces
(due to briefcase rockers talking about this on twitter, I’m breaking my word to say the right response.)
you are right, we don’t whatsoever. this music as a whole needs all the discourse it can get and you want what I want, which is the real thing. I substitute inserts in 3-D for inserts on bandcamp. you have a option to include hidden tracks as well as PDF files (or whatever else besides MP3s and) as a substitution for physical artwork. I throw bonus artwork, PDF books (like Robert Anton Wilson’s Cosmic Trigger, for example) even extra music (I used Bigg Jus’s example of including the MP3s for black mamba serums01 on the CD for 02 and did the same thing for Stations of the Crev02) for the people who just want to enjoy the music and support the artist in that format. When I make vinyl, it’s usually limited or colored or both.
I worked at record stores/labels for years and I know what it takes to make some product worth the person’s while. I also know that before I go save up 4000 of whatever currency to make a dope looking CD, I better have another 5000 for vinyl and at least 5 to 10000 to promote the record thru the right channels. This is the point where my position as a musician is these days. Either I do what I just said and do it the “right way”, or I do what I just did and drop records on Bandcamp until the “right way” becomes a realistic option and cost effective option.
If you know me, then you know I’m a cool dude. Neither I, nor Nasa or whoever else would have come at you that way if you made your point like you just did. For that, I apologize because we DO make this for you. As long as it’s on your mind, we make it for you.
Yep, that’s all you had to say. Discussion about methods is fine, nobody is one hundred percent happy about the lack of physical releases. I seem more comfortable with it then most, but that’s neither here nor there. If Sub could do all those things you mentioned I’m sure he would be. There are realities to where we are now, where we were and where we’re going. At the end of the day it’s up to the listener to make that adjustment and decision. Talking about that is more then fine, stomping feet about that is not.
Some people are retarded. I remember when hiphop people wanted each other to succeed around here.
i wish people would do vinyl only remixes again. cant step to all this hate hop
I hate all Americans basically.
That 2nd to last Rooster wasn’t me. No way I’m that nice.
You guys wasted entirely too much time on me.
If the Larry Bird dude wants to email me like a “man” then hit me up [email protected]. My name is Prentice Henderson and I live in Manitoba.
Dude did you just say you will come to my city and have a face to face talk with me? I thought you could barely make rent and now you want to catch a plane to come have lunch?
You and your homeslices sure spent a lot of time trying to justify yourselves. What are you so worried about that you gotta come here and break world records for the number of words typed on a news item?
you’re real dad must be proud
You’re teachers must be proud.
I download music, then if I like it, I buy the hard copy. If a hard copy isn’t available, I sit on it on the hopes that it will be available in the next year or so. If nothing happens, I will order the CDR.
For example, The Returners (2mex, Die, Stacey Dee, Deeskee) was a super hot release last year. It’s only available by digital download. I want this on vinyl so bad, it probably wont happen. My options are pay for the digital download to support the artists, wait and see if a hard copy comes out, or support in some other way. Well, I flew to LA to see The Returners, I buy everything Deeskee, 2mex, and Die release in hard copy, so I feel justified in not paying for The Returners yet. I feel I have paid for it in one way or another already, and would pay $100 5 years from now if it came out on vinyl and I found it on ebay. I love paying for music, because if I’m paying for it, it means I love it.
That said, I haven’t been sold on digital downloads and don’t quite feel guilty about it yet.
Subtitle for me is a great example, I think I have 99% of your releases downloaded, and 75% of your hard copy releases, if I found Weekend Science Experiment 1B on cassette, I would probably drop $50 bucks on it (I think Matre gave it to Chaps for free!!), but there are a few albums I probably wouldn’t chuck more than a few bucks at. When your favourite artists pump out an album every other month, I feel like I would have to get another job just to “support” all of them. I could just not download the album, or, I could download everything and then choose to support the artist based on the product released that I really enjoy.
I guess what I’m trying to say is if Trunk Bomb blows my mind like Weekend Science Experiment 1B did or Terrain to Roam did, I would absolutely pay for the digital download knowing that you hope to release it on vinyl.
Me, Chaps, Subtitle at my wedding.. word.
biology 101 .a rooster is a male chicken.if you like rap support it .if not sush you’re beak. or else we’ll bend you’re beak
physical product is OVER… we can still press cds and sell em for another ten years or more, but now its all about live show and having good music and having as many people hear it as possible. people do pay for mp3s and they cost NOTHING to create, be the fern that bends with the wind…….. everything else will crumble under its own bitterness….
when i hear dj shadow talking about people needing to buy music and how art is dying.. im like, “dude i was living 10 blocks from you, living on NOTHING making DOPE records…” dj shadow make a fucking record people want to hear and quit bitching and stop selling your vinyl for $30 a pops because we’re not all germans!
it only costs $900 to press 1000 digipack cds. and i always pay my manufacturing costs with preorders. put a preorder up 2 months in advance and your supporters will subsidize you, you dont need to get all fancy with it.
make some nice shirts. people definitely buy shirts.
paying middlemen doesn’t even work anymore, you can drop 40k on promo but the only people who are gonna buy your record is your personal network you’ve built up. and thats real talk.
It never ceases to amaze how a few sentences can send rappers into a fucking defensive frenzy.
Sub, new music sounds dope! Very interesting discussion.
FREE EP by Z-Man “Show up shut up and rap”, produced by DNAEBEATS and myself @ machetevox.com
Holy shit is that BOAC? You are what you eat? haha, awesome
the unfortunate sense of entitlement struggle and adversity rap inherently breeds in the most talented individuals is phenomenally disenchanting.
Sole was one of my biggest influences coming up. You could depend on the integrity and mission of the music. It felt and lived as sincerely as it was created.
If the onus is on the fans to support or abort, how do we define the artists role in the new commercial century?
If we want better fans and networks, better scenes and shows, better industry and marketing, is the ‘new and improved’ product / service / idea are we offering incentive enough to support our objective?
rap is so personal, we can’t take it personally.
So basically you’re saying he’s a dbag, but in a nice way. I concur.
My favourite line was:
“let me know where to find you. I’ll go to you town or city unannounced, drop in on you and have a 1:1 discussion about this face to face. If we can’t come to a conclusion like real men, then we will do something else”.
I love the thought of a bunch of late 20 early 30 year old dudes running around saying they’re in a gang called the Briefcase Rockers asking for donations.
Monitoring blogs and flying out to towns unannounced when someone makes a comment about them and have 1:1 discussions about it and if they don’t come to a conclusion like real men then they will do ‘something else’.
i love the thought of someone who can’t make rap, being a smart ass rap critic and gettin chuck norris’d in the throat
i live in uk and i can’t drop dollars online due to blacklistings and credit fiascos so aquiring subtitle albums has allways been tretcherous exercise involving convincing friends to make credit payments but still i got everything by mr s/t hard copy do or die right? except that king ghost/ram attack which i got outbayed on even though i bid £60.
i always say first thing i’ll do if i win lotteries or othersuch is become ginovanni’s official sponser cos it makes me sick that the finest talent in music today is so underexposed and underlabelsupported.
so i made another unsuspecting buddy tap their details out and now i’ve got another trunk bomb and as usual it’s another virtuoso, and i’ll drop yet more cash on any future editions whatever format and i’ll get cd then vinyl if that comes too. why?
because i love the music. because every £$ you spend is a vote. i vote for sub, full support, anything to aid him to make more of the musics that enhances my life twofold.